Love in the 4th (aka Lies I Can Believe)

I'd like to second this request!

FWIW, I remember first seeing Matt's slideshow for this and thought - 'that

s our Matt, so clever to pan through the sheet music at the appropriate (audio) moments'....so, haven't strictly confirmed this, but any chance one could essentially stitch together all or most of the lead sheet from the slideshow?

@Moderator: D-Mod - Yeah! I actually prefer the version without sax. Seems even more "4th dimensional". That bass line! Mmmmm!

@Moderator: D-Mod - Yeah! I actually prefer the version without sax. Seems even more "4th dimensional". That bass line! Mmmmm!

@Thomas Sicard Yeah, I found even the "raw" demo (which was the only version we had for decades) completely compelling -as-is... even with its crappy Xth-gen sound. In fact I'd venture to say it was my favorite of all the unreleased Whack tracks in circulation for all those years. Which also supports the idea, elaborated on in other posts, that a good demo will contain all of the important bones of a song, even absent all the additional instrumentations, arrangements, overdubs etc (and, as in this case, the baseline was almost always the spine).

About 96% of the slideshows here (and all of the download thumbnails; and the basic site look & feel; and; and; and...) are courtesy of the MainMan Moderator around these parts -- sometimes known as First Lieutenant Atticus Matticus, Director Of Operations, Technology, Motivation, and All-Around Righteous Action -- aka Matthew Kerns

@Moderator: D-Mod Props to Matt. They’re as much eye candy as Becker’s chord progression are to the ear

Yeah, this one is really something special. I think songs like this are one of the reasons I've never understood the impetus some people put on reducing Walter's role in Steely Dan. Is it really a stretch to think that the man who wrote this could write (or cowrite) Deacon Blues or Babylon Sisters or any of those tunes? Love in the 4th is such a damn gorgeous song...I remember when I heard the old tape-hiss demo back in the day and being completely blown away. Getting to be a part of bringing it out into the world in a slightly more complete form is one of the great pleasures of being a part of this.

Yeah, Dan, I've been a fan of Boz since the '60s when he was in the Steve Miller Band.. His voice, and songwriting, always appealed to me, and even though he wasn't a heavily featured member of that band I thought he offered an effective counterpoint to the music that Steve Miller was doing.. And then on his first solo album, with Somebody Loan Me A Dime, he really stepped up, with Duane Allman and the Muscle Shoals musicians, and put out a great first time effort that I loved, but most people never picked up on.. There is another song on the album called I'll Be Long Gone that is very similar, in texture and tone, to Love In The 4th.. It's the first time that Boz wrapped himself around the Mic and used his voice to interpret the song.. It's quite an interesting song that has become timeless.. When the Dukes of September, and the NY Rock and Soul Review recorded, and then toured, Boz Scaggs was such a perfect fit for those bands, they were all about performing the music that everyone enjoyed and were influenced by, the great tunes that made them all want to be musicians.. That kind of bond is undeniable and unspoken, it's an interconnection of frequencies.. The language of artists.. When I mentioned that Love In The 4th was a beautiful song with an arrangement that allowed Walter to open up on his vocal delivery, it was a song where I could easily hear Boz Scaggs singing, in his crooning, interpretive style.. Great artists always influence one another, even if it's on a subconscious level.. I'm really happy that you can hear the similarities between them too... Lary

@TBD Yes indeed, I'm sure of it ! There's something about them that's just too similar.. Lary

@Dan Belcher Hey Dan, and TBO, I've had business to take care of, had to drop out of the discussion on Walter's vocal delivery on this track, but I had the opportunity to catch my breath and check in with you again,. I'm curious to know if either of you, or anyone else, has checked out the music that I had mentioned In my earlier post.. These are some songs from the beginning of Boz Scaggs' solo career, recorded in '69, when he was experimenting with different styles and influences, from Blues to Country-Rock, with a focus on R&B.. Like the first SD album in '72, there was still some searching for a specific identification and direction, even though the basic sound was there, certain details needed to be addressed.. Steely Dan was searching for its voice, and Boz was hunting for the appropriate genre.. What I think is really interesting is that they both found that so much of their music was best served in a foundation that was laid down with a great drummer like Jeff Porcaro.. In the majority of the music that is recorded today most producers never work with a real drummer which, to me, is absurd ! But Walter and Donald would spend more time on a great drum track than on any other part of a recording.. And they shared that passion with Boz.. That one part of a recording is what makes it High Fidelity, and is what makes you want to listen to it again and again ! That's the primary connection between Walter's vocal delivery on this track and the music of Boz Scaggs.. On the surface it's much more complex than phrasing, but on a musical level it's just basic instinct, the unspoken language of artists and musicians.. Try to listen to the album, if you can.. I think that you would enjoy comparing it to the first SD record.. It's really cool to hear the evolution of the artists and the similarities between them, as well as the impact that they seem to have had on each other.. As well as their common choice in drummers.... Lary

@Moderator: D-Mod I'm grateful for this forum! You raise an excellent point regarding the language or vocabulary we might use to talk about art. The underlying intrinsic of the song remains the same regardless of what we say about it, or our attempts to contextualize it. For example the guitar solo of Junkie Girl presents certain otherwise un-utterable "facts" of the song story; there is nothing to add to such content via commentary. When we listeners with our "ears" experience it, we know those facts are true; the art is coherent. The song's inner truth can only escape to us via the ear, both sensory and conceptual. That your ear was celebrated by our central figure merits elaboration, do tell! Part of the initially unilateral artistic connection is conversational though, that is to wonder, what would I have meant if I could have written and played that music that way, sung those words, made those specific artistic choices? WB wove his primitive together with his high nuance, leaving activity for we upturned faces down below of gentle analysis and wonder, and to compare notes with each other.

@rob hewett Glad you mentioned the Junkie Girl solo. I've always loved that one very much, although I just appreciated the beautiful and tasteful guitar work, without thinking about what the solo might be telling us. Interesting to consider, for sure.

@rob hewett interesting but perhaps not surprising: the phrase and the meaning and the implication of "the upturned faces down below" has been much present in my thinking about this, about the act of "analysis".. that also just pops up a lot these days, seemingly out of nowhere and apropos of nothing. It was a powerful image when I first heard in in the song -- and it's power and applicability seems to have only increased with time --especially now that he's gone,

Just slip behind the wheel of your Walter DeVille and take a long cruise along the Pacific Coast Highway, yeah, that's delightful.. It's a great day.. Lary

G'night D(or mornin') obviously everybody has had a Great time with your fabulous gift, Matt really pulled off the magic trick of the new Decade with this one ! I'm going to check out the download dept. to hear what I missed out on.. And then I am also checking into some long overdue sleep time.. Thank you very much for giving everyone a weekend to remember.. Catch you on the flip side.. Love, Lary

@Lary Dixon Hey Lary - you know you probably live on this board most days but when I heard that you had trouble and were out of plays, I had a workaround we could do...all I needed was another email address from you...but..nothing. You were nowhere to be found for 24 hrs or more. I eventually had to take down my post so not many people would have seen me making an exception to the "no private delivery" promise. Great timing, huh? Anyway you got it now and I'm glad.....

@Moderator: D-Mod Thank you D, yeah I have some serious duties that require a disappearing act a few times a month or so.. I'm really Grateful for your attempt to help me enjoy the latest from Walter, it certainly would have been a soothing respite from my jagged edged duties.. You just can't predict much of anything today.. Thank you so much, you're really sweet.. Lary

I forgot to mention that I had to add this photo to my collection of important pics, for an immediate Comfort Adjustment.. I entered this world with a wet nose and loving eyes by my side, and have always had a faithful companion sleeping at my feet.. Dogs really are Man's Best Friend... Lary

Yes indeed, Shep is great on the alto. And I've rarely heard anything more sublime yet attention-grabbing than Dean's solo on the fretless low-tuned guitar/

Hello, Hello.. Once again it's after 4:30am, it has been an unbelievable day, so I come here to breathe.. The first place to visit is this amazing photo, and now, if I pass out right here, the whole world is a better place.. Thank You For This Picture.. Lary

@neplicot

Now I remember chatting with you a while back, learning that you're related to bubblegum royalty. Just off the top of my head I'm thinking — you wanted to impress your dad with being able to write songs that will be hits for others? and here you are drawn to artists that are pretty individualistic musicians—each one-offs in their own way — and whose presence as a performer is pretty much welded to the uniqueness of their songs. Hmmmmm .. :-)

The image of your dad rubbing elbows with Frank must be a compelling one for you…but the encounter I’ll never get out of my head now is Walter and the Chairman of the Board; Walter probably would faint; The Voice would probably call him a bum and tell him to cut his hair.

You know its funny, I was reading how you distinguish Becker's contribution to SD — I’m always interested in how people do that, of course — even though most people struggle with it, how they “know”, what they latch on to. And I’m reading what you wrote about this the other day and I’m put in mind again (cause it comes to me pretty regularly) of that pretty great description that somebody wrote once and I searched for it and… yeah… it was you who said it. You wrote:

“… Fagen's solo material , while brilliant, often suffers from "phantom limb syndrome" os [sic] missing what Becker brought to the table”

Phantom limb syndrome… that’s pretty perfect in its way. It’s “just” a descriptive — it doesn’t help anyone to find it or know what the hell a phantom limb syndrome sounds like … but it’s still right.

I’m glad you’ve clicked with something here on WBM enough to break the lurking plane from time to time :-})

Oh, and Kings and Queens of Quipdom? good quip.

@Moderator: D-Mod First, I am honored you remember my little ramblings. Then again, it's a bit mortifying if I've repeated myself in the telling of old Brill tales, but, as a music obsessive, I've spent far too much time - no - I take it back - I've spent a righteous amount of time on various music forums, like Steve Hoffman's wonderful music website, which is a hotbed of musichead discussion from the banal to the deepsight (is that a word?), arguing Becker's case to the ignorant, belligerent "Becker is the Andrew Ridgeley to Fagen's George Michael" crowd. I tend to forget who have I told to "Get Off Our Lawn!" after so many years, so sorry if I repeat myself.

I'm sure the lack of respect and credit Walter tends to get for his contribution to SD must get under your skin. The difference between Fagen's solo albums and SD are SO obviously clear (without present danger in Fagen) that I'm always stunned supposed big "fans" can't see Becker's sanguine musical and lyrical saturation throughout the SD catalog. I mean, I get it. Fagen is the "voice." He has that huge, unfair head start of being the "lead singer" and he's also the right, (correctly chosen by Walter, Gary and the rest) voice for the songs and so, superficially, a Fagen solo album WILL sound like SD - if you don't pay attention to the lyrics or lack of odd left turns or edge.

Apart from a couple of live (muddy) "Book Of Liars" tributes Don sang after we lost Walter, I don't think I've ever heard Fagen tackle a Becker solo song. If the SD touring/studio band with Fagen singing were to play, say, 50% of Becker's solo songs (without anyone knowing they're Becke's songs), my guess is SD fans around the world would rejoice and say it's the best SD material released since Gaucho. "Downtown Canon" might be the best post 1980 song either of them wrote. Hearing the stunning, strange, Oh-So-Becker rarities you're gifting us on this site only puts the differences in greater relief. It sounds like you've only scratched the surface in terms of the treasures that lurk in boxes and on hard drives and this site will be the place to be for years to come. The one great thing a bout Fagen being the "voice" of SD is that there always remains the possibility (however remote) that Donald might record new Becker/Fagen songs with the SD gang and release more albums - even as solo albums (I'll take a solo Fagen album of ten tracks like "Snowbound" anyday - that's my favorite Fagen solo album, btw, not surprisingly because Becker is all over it). Lord knows Becker/Fagen material of the highest quality is out ehrre - just sitting there... waiting.

I apologize for not being up to date on the apparent controversies regarding the estate issues and SD musical legacy/rights and/or possible friction with Mr. Fagen, but my deepest condolences if bad vibes are in the air. That's the last thing anyone needs when we should just be celebrating the man/men and the music. They could have done a lot of things differently if "money" was the object, so I can only hope artistic integrity is driving these problems - even if it's all misunderstanding. I'm not looking for clarification on these problems, but I do hope Donald visits this site and sees, firsthand, the genuine love, respect, great music and positivity pouring out in ones and zeros across the globe and into deep space at the speed of light. Music is all about the laws of nature and I've yet to hear about the existence of "Lawyers of Nature," so I hope this all blows over in a peaceful breeze, reminding all what's really important.

As absurd as it sounds, if there's ever anything I, personally, can do to help you, please don't hesitate to ask. I have NO idea how I could possibly be of use, but Walter Becker is a great inspiration for me and, through your open, witty, insightful, generous writing, I've become just a big ole fan of yours, as well. I'm sure many on this site feel the same way. Actually, I do have some very interesting projects coming up that might be worth a little chat - but we should save that for a more private forum. Speaking of which, I also have a couple slightly private creative questions regarding Walter's process on which I would love to get your take. No biggie, just the struggles of a songwriter looking for that small crack, that opening that lets the light finally seep in. Maybe you'd do me the honor of discussing these personal matters, but I totally understand it if you don't have the bandwidth (or desire). If you do, however, just point me in the right direction for PM's, but, please, absolutely no pressure,. I've already taken up too much of your time as it is.

Typically,

JCB

@neplicot I totally agree with you on the comments regarding Walter and his contribution to the SD sound. Just like you, I'm always puzzled when I hear serious SD fans talk about The Nightfly as the solo album being closest to a SD record.

I've said this before on this forum so others know how I feel, but to me it's very similar to the McCartney-Lennon dynamic. Paul's solo albums to me are very much like Donald's, in the sense that they lack the input from their partner that made the joint efforts so damn interesting. As a child, Paul was my favorite Beatle because I felt closer to his amazing melodies and "silly love songs". But as I aged, I started to gravitate more toward John because I felt like he had much more to say, and in a more interesting way. And by the way, an amazing vocalist in his own right.

I feel that Walter played a very similar role in the creation of the SD songbook. When The Nightfly came out, I liked it well enough but I couldn't escape the feeling that it wasn't quite the same. It was like hearing a Wings record. And like you, I enjoyed Kamakiriad much more, especially Snowbound, which was for all intents and purposes a SD song.

Walter might not have been the same kind of amazing singer that Lennon was, but his solo records are just as interesting to me as John's were. For the same reasons.

Thanks Hal, I'm So happy that you're enjoying this.. It's an

Amazing gift ! I'll get my chance soon.... Lary